It was messy, unedifying, often downright ugly. And the only real winner was the incredible moderator Chris Wallace.
Still, Joe Biden didn’t lose.
What was meant to be a two-way debate between the presidential contenders more resembled a three-way bout with Wallace often hitting harder against Donald Trump than Biden.
The Democratic contender had the most to lose but he also had a low bar.
He looked awake. He didn’t stumble or waffle too much. In fact, he quickly became feisty, fighting back against Trump’s constant hectoring, heckling shouting and downright abuse.
Boy did he fight back. Within minutes he called the president a “clown”. During the 90 minutes he added numerous other insults including “liar”, “fool”, ”Putin’s puppy” and “the worst president in the history of this country”.
At one point early on he even said, “Will you shut up, man!” which was unpresidential — but then so was the whole debate. And he definitely reflected the views of most people watching the horrible spectacle.
He successfully touched Trump’s trigger points urging him to get off the golf course “out of the bunker, out of the sandtrap”.
Meanwhile the chaotic debate continued to resemble two toddlers in a sandpit testing the furious teacher in the middle.
Biden tried everything to handle Trump’s appalling behaviour which set new lows even by his own standards. The former vice president rolled his eyes, smirked, and downright laughed during the Trump rants. And he did plenty of talking back himself.
But at some key points he allowed Trump’s interjections to derail him, most noticeably during the much anticipated discussion on Trump’s tax returns.
Trump claimed he paid millions and Biden kept sniping “show us your tax returns”, but when given the chance to pursue him he diverted to general tax policy, letting Trump off the hook.
As expected Biden was strongest on the COVID-19 issue, even though he stumbled in the first few minutes of the key figure of 200,000 dead. He hit home with Trump’s cover-up of the pandemic; reminded us of the bleach outrage; demolished Trump’s claim a vaccine was due within weeks.
Biden shrugged off calls of “socialist”. He ignored the constant: “Why didn’t you do anything in your 47 years, Joe?”. Most importantly he did not lose his cool when Trump launched the anticipated vile attack on his son Hunter.
Biden showed the stamina to keep fighting right until the last seconds of the exhausting 90-minute debacle.
How he, a moderator or any poor viewers can come back for a second round will be the next test.
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The Trump cultists will noisily affirm that Trump won. Biden supporters will claim that Joe won. Seems to me that, with both candidates, Americans are the losers. Only four more weeks of this nonsense to go…
Spot on, Biden was the architect of the mass surveillance laws which has been transported to China with the observable effects,.
For all his narcissistic stupidity he has tried to put some reigns on China and affect the working conditions of the rust belt to try to draw jobs back.
Biden didn’t go after trumps taxes because he would change any of the rules that allowed him to pay no tax as he is a right winger.
When Biden and Obama were in power they oversaw the great wealth transfer from the middle class to the 0.01% in the history of the world.
If Trump is returned, here in Oz we’ll be losers to collateral damage.
One thing, both this article and the one written by Bernard Keane. Did not pick up on Trump saying when asked about white supremacy, mentioned the Proud Boys, saying “Stand back and stand by”
If one doesn’t know them, they are a right wing, neo-fascist organisation who are listed by the SPLC as a hate group.
Yeah, I noticed that. Of course the military term is “Stand down”, but Trump said “Stand by,” which means something quite different.
Except Trump wouldn’t know military terms from a hole in the ground.
Just in his usual verbal trick of cadence.
You’re being way to polite. Proud Boys are a white supremacist, armed to the teeth bunch of thugs, and trump told them to ‘stand by’. It doesn’t bode well…
Yes the Proud Boys are a white supremacist, armed to the teeth.
Also from the web chatter I’ve noticed, and posted in the other thread:
I’ve seen the comments on 4chan about the “Day of the rope”
This is paraphrasing from the ADL website, but this concept is white suprematist, inspired from the book “The Turner Diarys”
This is the book that inspired the bombing in Oklahoma of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building by Timothy McVeigh.
So basically the day of the rope, is where they can kill off all of the race traitors, and jews (always a target.)
“Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence or the number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland?” moderator Chris Wallace asked Trump.
“I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right,” Trump responded. “I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.”
“Then do it sir,” Wallace urged Trump before his Democratic challenger, Joe Biden, chimed in. “Do it, do it. Say it,” said Biden.
Trump shot back, “You want to call them. What do you want to call them? Give me a name.” Biden said, “Proud Boys,” referring to a right-wing group.
“Proud Boys. Stand back and stand by,” responded Trump.
Wallace asked both candidates if they would urge their supporters to remain calm and not take to the streets if the election is close. Trump said he was urging his supporters to be vigilant about the actual voting on election day. “I am urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully,” Trump said.
Biden said Trump “has no idea what he’s talking about”. “Once the winner is declared after all the ballots are counted, that will be the end of it,” Biden said.
To my reading ‘Sleepy Joe,’ is not so Sleepy after all, he set Trump up and he fell for it.
From memory, Trump’s behaviour was much more unhinged than in his debates with Hilary Clinton 4 years ago. He was a bully, making it up on the fly, who just couldn’t shut up. Biden held his own and came back with some timely responses (“Shut up!”) and didn’t seem to wilt under the onslaught. But it was mostly heat with little room for light. The moderator should have been able to switch off Trump’s mike once he overstepped the rules.
Fact-checking showed that both contestants were flexible with the truth, but – as anticipated – Trump was much more so.
One delicious moment was Trump’s claim that a local sheriff, who he identified, had endorsed him. This unfortunate gent had to thereupon tweet that he didn’t endorse Trump and never would.
I don’t think in this encounter that either party “won”. Biden didn’t lose; Trump’s behaviour suggested panic.
Let’s hope that the Pence/Harris encounter is more civilised and informative.
Interesting to note that CNN viewers rated Biden the winner 60% to Trump 28%
What on earth gained him the 28%?
Mission impossible for the hapless moderator, but he should have foreseen that, and had each contestant in a sound-proof enclosure and just turned off the microphone the instant the heckling and refusal to follow the rules started.
Perhaps the remaining time of the 2 minute segment could have been forfeited, or even handed to the other contestant as additional punishment for crass behavior in a nationally televised event.
One wit on FB reckoned watching the horror unfold gave him a pre-existing condition…I wonder how many TV’s were wrecked?