In Both Sides Now, author and ethicist Leslie Cannold presents two sides of an argument and then passes the mic to the reader. Last week she took on the topic of vaccination: should Australians over 50 get the AstraZeneca jab or wait for Pfizer? And Crikey readers have been near unanimous in their response: we’ll take what the PM’s having, thank you very much.
Catherine Stuart writes: As on over 50, I want Australia to open up again but I also want to be able to enjoy open Australia and perhaps travel overseas — not stay at home in fear of getting sick. I am being asked to play vaccine Russian roulette on the basis that I’m more vulnerable due to my age, only to end up less protected than the majority of the population. There is no logic to this, only ageism.
There is also something inherently problematic at a policy level about offering less protection to any one part of the population compared to the majority. I was fine with the concept of AstraZeneca (minus the blood clot risk) when it was going to be the standard for the majority of the population, and of course I had no issues about some people getting a higher level of protection. Now the situation is reversed and the majority is being offered a higher level of protection. The only reasonable position is for everyone to be offered at least the level of protection offered by Pfizer.
Kayleen Mollenhagen writes: I am over 50 and I will not be getting the AstraZeneca jab. I don’t think it is fair that the government is giving the older people the shit jab. Maybe they should have done their homework a bit better and ordered more of the better ones. And as for saying that we have to do it for the young people who were in lockdown? Well, guess what, we were too!
Katrina Arnold writes: I think that the government needs to listen to the population in Australia. Just telling everyone over 50 years that they must accept the inferior AstraZeneca jab because they were lax in ordering sufficient superior vaccines is unfair to that age group. It sends a message that this particular age group who have worked and paid taxes all their lives are dispensable.
I think that every Australian deserves to receive the very best vaccine on the market and it is not fair to say that a certain age group is deemed to be less worthy or dispensable. I certainly will not be putting my arm out for an AstraZeneca jab. I would like a Pfizer vaccine, the same as the one our prime minister received.
Teresa Fester writes: There is no way in hell my husband and I are getting the AstraZeneca vaccine. We are 66 and 70 this year and we both have underlying health issues, mine being autoimmune disease and his being cardiac. At our age, we should have already received the vaccine which has the best safety and effectiveness rating — which at this stage is the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.
I have never been an anti-vaxxer and have had many, many vaccinations in my lifetime. I believe in vaccination. However, until the medical professionals have more answers about who is and is not at risk [of adverse side effects], I believe Australia should totally exclude the AstraZeneca vaccine as an option for its population immediately.
Richard Davoren writes: Seniors have an opportunity to be vaccinated now and they should take that opportunity. Yes, Australia has been fortunate not to fall victim to the virus in the way some countries have, but like my little pet rabbit when myxomatosis was raging outside her cage, it was only a matter of time when that cage would cease to protect her. Vaccination was the only option for survival. Better a 87% chance of survival than 0%.
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My mother contracted virus-induced thrombocytopenia. Astrozenica is based on a virus and attacks platelets. Not going to have it. Too risky. Absolutely impossible to find out whether a person in my circumstances can get Pfizer and where and when.
For over 50’s the Astra-Zeneca risk is 2 per million for blood clotting and its coverage for infection only 87%. Nevertheless, it’s coverage for fatal infection is close to 100%, on one report. Other things being equal, it ought to be acceptable. The problem is that the risk of infection from COVID-19 in Australia is less than 2 per million. So, in Australian circumstances, as they are now, we can ask why would you put yourself at risk to counter a present lesser risk? Two things can be concluded. Australia could have afforded to go for production of the Pfizer vaccine last year and should have, given the success we have had in controlling COVID-19. That is a failure of penny pinching on the part of this government, which combined spending big-wasting millions on business support-with penny pinching so it could say it minimised its big government role. Given that failure and to cover for long term risk, Astra-Zeneca makes sense, just, but I can understand why many people want the best.
If AZ vax was the only one going, i would take it.
If COVID was ravaging Oz, like it’s hitting India, I would take it.
Neither of those things are happening, and if our quarantine system is good enough, hopefully the India-style outbreak won’t ever happen here.
So the way i see it is this: –
the Feds put all their money on the one horse – Astra Zeneca. Whoopsie, bad option!
So what are we going to do with all this stuff?
This is quite embarrassing, plus a huge waste of money if it doesn’t get used.
We will give it the over 50s, and ship it off to neighbouring countries as donations.
Problem solvered!
The alternative is to wait a bit longer to get more of the mRNA gear.
With a robust quarantine system in place, should be sweet, except the Feds don’t want to build the quarantine system, and they don’t want to look like dunderheads over choosing Astra Zeneca as their vax of choice, and they want to resume international travel asap. So it’s plan B, with apologies to the 50 over 50s who are statistically likely to die.
It’s just a very low quality solution, especially when I’m so used to being first in the queue, and the envy of the world etc rah rah rah
That’s simply not true. If you bother to google the blood clot issues with Pfizer and Moderna that are now emerging you will see similar low risks but this is getting very little widespread publicity. AZ protects against death and severe illness from the variants studied so far.
thanks scottycansing, i wasn’t aware of that. Why do you think it’s not getting the wider publicity?
Also, if you edit out “if you bother” bit from your response, you end up imparting all the relevant information, without sounding like you’re saying i’m a person who isn’t actively interested in finding out these things. It’s so easy to remove the snark, and presto – you’ve got a person you can exchange info with, without getting into a fight, and everyone’s a winner!
You’re right, I could have been unsnarky. I’m a bit taken aback by the adverse publicity that the AZ shot is getting without scrutiny. It’s hard to keep up with the emerging information because it’s science on the run but MSM is doing a woeful job, amplified by social media and our expectation that if our government could shaft us, it would.
Yes i agree! The government announcements i’ve seen re. vaccine probs have all been AZ and J&J related….I guess the folks in charge are in that invidious position where they don’t want to defend one vaccine by saying all the other ones have these probs too.
In a way, maybe that would have been the way to go…i think having that “better version” tantalisingly on offer, even if it’s a mirage, definitely muddies the waters.
Memo: to Glen Lumsden, assuming that’s your real name. 910 people have died from covid in Australia. I wonder how long it will be before the vaccine death rate catches that up. Memo finished.
got your memo macklyn. 🙂 not sure exactly what it means, except i can tell you’re a bit ticked off. can you explain your point a bit more? are you saying “take the vax because it’s never going to rack up 910 fatalities” or are you saying you think it will eventually rack up that number, and you’re genuinely wondering how long it will be til it does? i’m asking genuinely, so please don’t give me a serve. i also have no idea why you think i’m a made up person, feel free to check out my fb feed if you need to be convinced, but i am a bit curious why you would think that in the first place, and who would i be working for? Anyway, i look forward to hearing from you…i think….
Just scrolling down the feed, mac, you’ve blazed quite a trail! Are you sure you’re not the secret agent? You’ve really got that “hit-and run” technique nailed!
You might have got the memo, Mr Lumsden, but you obviously did n’t read it.
Tried to read the memo Agent Macklyn, but suspected I was being followed, and had to take evasive action. Suggest you print out all the messages you’ve posted, and swallow them to prevent them falling into enemy hands. Trust no-one, operatives everywhere! Good luck!
Message understood. The Blue Owl hoots at the sleeping Fox. Over.
Normally I would ask for your sources but knowing they would typically be MSM I won’t bother.
I assumed Crikey readers could use google themselves to verify or refute my comment. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/blood-clots-as-prevalent-with-pfizer-and-moderna-vaccine-as-with-astrazenecas-report-2021-04-15
The notsomainstream RT version: https://www.rt.com/news/521313-pvt-bloodclot-mrna-covid-vaccines/
The lone expert: https://dreddymd.com/2021/04/17/spike-proteins-in-pfizer-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-linked-to-deadly-blood-clots-brain-inflammation-and-heart-attacks/
And for comparison with the disease itself: https://dreddymd.com/2021/04/17/spike-proteins-in-pfizer-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-linked-to-deadly-blood-clots-brain-inflammation-and-heart-attacks/
I can’t say where scottycansing got their info, but I remember seeing articles regarding clotting from J&J and Pfizer vaccines on Ars Technica a couple of months ago. I didn’t pay too much attention because, since the odds are almost literally one in a million, it seems to me to be a stupid level of risk to get hung up on.
You’re almost as likely to be hit by a car while walking into the medical centre for your jab.
Sources please, or he’s lying.
Have you considered that data may show a particular cohort might be at a sufficiently greater risk to the extent they should not receive a particular vaccine. There appears to be a bias to blood clotting in fertile females, possibly extending to those using HRT or menopausal. The jury is still out as there is insufficient data collected that can be validated. When you are in the middle of a roaring epidemic collecting and acting on such data as is available will have a low priority. Where you are not it can be considered significant.
Yeah, my 75 year old mother in-law got vaccinated last month. I forget the name of the vaccine, but anyway, she woke up yesterday with a sore head. By mid-morning she had grown another head and now she’s got two heads. That means she talks twice as much as before and now there’s no chance of shutting her up.
Well, if you other commenters continue to make up rediculous and unbelievable stories about people getting vaxxed, so can I.
Is the AstraZeneca vaccine less effective that the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines? In the trials, the effectiveness of the latter two vaccines was assessed looking at the prevention of severe or moderate infections. In the AstraZeneca trial, they were looking at the absence of virus in testing.
With a considerable number of infections being asymptomatic or very mild, the protection from the three vaccines seems much the same.
I’m 66,and I’m going to have the AstraZeneca vaccine at the end of the month, and not wait months just in case sometime in the future I’ll be offered the Pfizer vaccine.
There is now emerging data that the clotting risks from the Moderna/Pfizer jabs is similar to AZ. I’ve had my first AZ shot. Made me unwell for a couple of weeks. Glad to be so lucky.
Yeah right. We believe ya.
Am 83 years Wayne and today accepted Astra Zenaca jab. Prior to, had a detailed discussion with GP regarding risk(s) etc etc including GP providing an opportunity to back-out.
Am pissed-off Pfizer was never an option in Oz.(Unlike NZ PM’s decision for “all’ to receive Pfizer). But ultimately, deed done. For one reason. Am a Territorian. Scott Morrison ‘bought’ our Govt, and in return, the NT receives a rolling intake of 2000 Expats ‘stored’ at Howard Springs.
From the safest location in Australia. One potential mis-step. And Territorians heads will spin. Our PM may understand marketing. But clearly he is deficient as a manager. He is also totally lacking in accepting responsibility.
That was a risk I could not accept.
At 76, I have just received my first jab of the AZ vaccine! Made the decision to have whatever was offered given the odds.
Proof please.
I’m 72 and had my first AZ jab last week. No reaction at all. Well, I say that, but actually when I checked my shoulder in the mirror at home, there was a small piece of plaster that wasn’t there before. Not in the list of AZ side effects either. But anyway, it’s gone now. I have an appointment for the second jab in July.