If and when the historic Voice referendum meets defeat in coming months, as polls increasingly suggest, the court of history will blame not only the rank political opportunism of the opposition and the fringe right, but — as things stand — so too the Albanese government.
It is, of course, no secret that Yes advocates (the government included) have been forced to trek an impossibly narrow path in their bid to explain and widen the proposal’s appeal.
They’ve been at pains to point out, for instance, that the Voice embodies a simple rather than radical idea, though not something so modest in its aims it suffers the charge of symbolism. Indeed, that it nonetheless presents a historic moment of reconciliation, though not something so profound or far-reaching that it necessarily compels rather than invites change. And yet that, even so, it will make a difference, even if the possibility of such difference remains irrevocably tied to the will of Parliament, which can ignore the Voice.
By contrast, and on the opposing side, lies the brazenly contradictory arguments of the right, which have for months proudly occupied a double-folded state of being, unable to decide whether the Voice will do too much or too little.
On the one hand, it says the Voice will confer on Indigenous Australians a special and unfair say over everyone and everything, thereby raising the spectre of endless national discord and democracy’s demise. Such inequality, it intones, is of itself racist and divisive. From there it arrives at the rather daring conclusion the Voice will be, in time, unmasked for what it is and always was: a Trojan horse through which Indigenous Australians seek to right the wrongs of the past by regaining the nation’s sovereignty, utterly unravelling our way of life.
And even if that is wrong, this group insists, it surely follows that the “Canberra Voice” will prove an ineffectual institution — a pointless vehicle through which self-serving “Indigenous elites” personally stand to reap financial reward from ongoing First Nations disadvantage and “white man’s guilt”.
No one from this vantage point can accuse the right of a failure of imagination. On any view, these are large and unhinged claims, and ones savaged by the nation’s leading legal minds. They’re also disinformation distended, steeped in an unbounded vulgarity that casts a pall over the heart of the nation.
But none of this matters. Truth and logic are irrelevant when your singular aim is to sow fear and division, and give licence to unchecked outrage. And with as little as four months out from the referendum, we now have confirmation such tactics are meeting their desired ends.
All published opinion polls but one show support for the Voice has fallen to below 50% for the first time, with most of the ground ceded to the No campaign reportedly emanating from Labor voters.
Seizing on this, the Voice gravedigger-in-chief has in turn called on the government to abandon the referendum: “[The prime minister] should make a decision that’s in our country’s best interest and say, ‘Look, I’m going to call it off because it’s just going to divide the country down the middle, it’s not going to achieve the outcome that we’re talking about,’” Peter Dutton told 2GB in recent days.
It’s tempting to ask where Dutton finds the reserves of sheer hypocrisy. But that would be to lend his Voice manoeuvrings a Machiavellian-like cleverness that isn’t there.
The truth is, his is a politics that’s long been inked in fear, not inspiration, with its one unifying thread being an us-versus-them mentality unspooled from the moderating forces of truth and decency.
This is the man, after all, who falsely claimed African gangs were frightening Melbourne families from dining out, who’s readily likened asylum seekers to paedophiles and murderers, and whose unceremonious presence was found wanting at both the apology to the Stolen Generations and the recent introduction of the referendum legislation.
Political othering, in other words, is something of a national pastime for the opposition leader, who is the natural heir to a political lineage that has long championed a politics festooned in mendacity and sophistry.
In this connection, it hardly needs pointing out that it was the Howard government whose penchant for lies and untruths unilaterally introduced new depths to the meaning of political cynicism, setting fire to the party’s sense of ethics and respect for convention. What we discern in Dutton today is nothing more and nothing less than a worldview warped in the same black clouds of this smoke.
But none of this is truly news, which invites the obvious question: how is it that the Albanese government so readily underestimated the demonstrable power of an angry populism cloaked in white supremacy?
One possible answer is hubris. Flying high in the polls, Albanese was convinced his popularity would sustain a Yes vote in a nation weary of the divisive politics of times past. To that end, he’s instead been busying himself with other endeavours, including shoring up his popularity through a loose constellation of alliances with media personalities such as Kyle Sandilands.
Such hubris might also explain why it is the government failed to legislate Independent MP Zali Steggall’s truth in political advertising bill, despite acknowledging last November the dangers misinformation posed to the referendum’s success. And why, against the weight of expert legal opinion, it gave needless ground to the opposition on the question of a Yes/No referendum pamphlet, which — history shows — is a document invariably replete with falsehoods and misleading claims.
The alternative, more charitable answer is that Albanese hoped his style of politics, bland as it is, would inspire those on the right to detach themselves from their daily efforts of outrage and apocalyptic thinking and return to the sensible, civil centre. But even if that is so, surely it was obvious by March that so much was wishful thinking.
And so now the nation finds itself at an unenviable crossroads, increasingly cornered by the haunting spectre of a scarcely concealed racism and blind political opportunism.
Against the backdrop of falling approval ratings for the prime minister and a looming recession, the situation for the Yes campaign is reportedly so dire the Labor Party is mobilising a far-reaching grassroots campaign with Yes23, with the trade union movement, too, joining their ranks.
Some are hopeful the next four months will give way to hope and restore optimism. The difficulty, however, is the right’s pathway to success was always the easier to navigate. The more socially acceptable it appears to be to oppose the Voice, the more likely it is people will march unperturbed to the right’s drumbeat of division and hate.
As things stand, perhaps few things are certain. The referendum’s defeat will not only spell the death of Indigenous reconciliation; it will confirm the death of conservatism in modern Australia. It will also settle as a matter of veritable truth that Dutton — as Albanese recently put it — is “completely unworthy of [being] the alternative prime minister of this nation”.
The problem for Albanese, of course, is that we all already knew this. And long ago.
Will Peter Dutton’s negativity win the day on the Voice referendum? Let us know by writing to letters@crikey.com.au. Please include your full name to be considered for publication. We reserve the right to edit for length and clarity.
This is an awful situation to be in. I don’t want to see the Voice fail but given the bloody-mindedness of the No campaign and the desperation of the Yes, it looks like it will. What do we do here? Is it possible to drop the matter for three years and let the truth slowly seep out of the mire of conservative media groups and Right-wing trolls? How much disillusionment would such a decision cause?
You have to hand it to Dutton; he has wedged the Labor Party, the independents, and the Greens with his campaign of racism, fear and confusion. It’s a lose-lose for the moderates. And for the Liberals, most of them, it’s a sign that there is no minority group too oppressed, too disregarded, and too downtrodden that they can’t be bashed even further to gain political advantage.
uh just listen to Noel Pearson’s advice and respect the “Statement from the Heart” – offering a model to vote Yes to pay a modicum of respect to the Elders and their peoples’ agency
Get out and about and tell everyone why they should vote yes.
Chances are, almost 50% of the ppl in your life will vote no, as things stand.
Change their minds
Convince me….
I am someone who thinks:
a) it’s symbolic and therefore divisive for divisiveness sake without actually achieving anything – the worst type of politics;
b) it will actually reinforce institutional racism by creating a seperate institution for indigenous people and thus discouraging indigenous people from joining the institutions – the ones with the power including parliament, the judiciary and the police – where they face institutional racism;
c) it creates a false hope for indigenous people because it’s not clear how it will make any difference;
d) it’s in lieu of actual policies with substance including addressing institutional racism with an aggressive program of affirmative action in the major political parties, judiciary, legal industry, the police, education, health, housing, prisons and any area that will actually make a difference and where people get more than a “consultation”;
d) the “yes” campaign have behaved appallingly by refusing to properly engage and name calling rather than providing specifics; and
e) referenda are generally a terrible idea.
I am tempted to describe it as a populist policy but it doesn’t quite meet my own definition because I think the people proposing the Voice genuinely believe it will improve things.
My definition of a populist policy is a policy that a person knows will not achieve anything and is used for the sole purpose of dividing communities in the pursuit of power.
Brexit and Trump’s wall were populist policies. The Voice has quite a bit in common with Brexit including a total lack of detail.
Confusing, last sentence is a give away, promoting apathy via the example of the confected anti-EU Brexit vote?
This is an example of Orwellian dog whistling of the Voice from the nativist right via media cartel, but hiding behind the experience of Brexit and Trump which did similar, hence, suggesting to give up on the Voice (because the right now wants more detail)?
Represents another underlying issue, is how the right and their media cartels have become absolutely politicised, including colonising of social media, to promote wedge issues due to no attractive policies; Australians are too easily and lazily duped by these deny, delay and deflect tactics.
How does that answer my concerns?
A few other things about me:
a) I don’t really do the whole right v left wing thing but I’d probably describe myself as a socialist libertarian (not as contradictory as it sounds – I just believe the government should focus more on stuff like health, education and infrastructure, and less on regulating people’s lives (but corporations should be regulated within an inch of their profit margins));
b) there’s lots of words I don’t like because they’re over or mis-used including “left”, “right”, “Orwellian”, “dog whistling”…..
c) the Voice is a wedge issue – for the people promoting it…..(as well as the Coalition who are lead by a fascist).
So have another go. Convince me.
Convince yourself. Don’t be lazy.
Is the standard of “debate” from those pushing the Voice.
Part of me thinks it’s because nobody really has a clue what it’s all about and are just going with the “vibe”.
He can’t. That’s the point.
I believe you have already convinced yourself. Just buy a T shirt and get it printed with “I’m a Racist” and “Vote No for the voice.” Its as simple as that.
It only gives indiginous people the right to be heard the same as Political Parties and Corporations, without the economic power.
PS Did you read my post?
Why would you think someone who advocates for affirmative action is “right wing” (using whatever definition you wish to use for that term)?
And, yes, my views on affirmative action are probably incompatible with my socialist libertarianism and, yes, that term (like all the terms I dislike) is probably nonsense but at least it’s my made up term. You should try using your own language not other people’s. It’s a sign of independent thought.
can you give me some details on the Aukus Pantomime?
AUKUS is 100% a populist policy!
It was brought to us by three populists! Trump, Johnson and Morrison!
I don’t actually blame the Albanese government for trying to maintain a degree of consistency.
At the same time I believe Australia should be a neutral county. It has not benefitted from a single war – ever.
If Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein, San Marion and the Vatican City could have stayed out of WW2 than so could have Australia.
Successive Australian governments have sent Australians to their death for absolutely no reason.
I abhor nationalism. The Voice is also founded on nationalism. Indigenous nationalism is still nationalism. And nationalism like religion is another opium for the masses.
Agree with most of yours except: Lots of neutral countries were invaded in WW2, most of those you cite were too small to bother with (San Marino!), free rode on Allied protection (eg Ireland), made money selling to the Nazis and would have been invaded later (Sweden and Swiss) or just avoided joining wrong side (Spain). The US rescued Aus in WW2, and Germany would have taken Brit Colonies such as Aus in WW1 if they had won. Not a voice issue true!
“free rode on Allied protection (eg Ireland)”
Nice.
First Ireland suffered for centuries thanks to that wonderful Ally, Britain.
Second the reason Ireland remained neutral was because it was so sick of war.
And it was similar for Spain that had recently come out of a civil war.
Sweden – too small to bother with???
Turkey????
Afghanistan? That has famously been invaded countless times including by the very same Allies?
And how in the love of god would Australia, that was miles from anywhere, have been invaded by anyone?
Even when it did decide to stick its oar in and invite trouble, Australia suffered as many bombings as…..IRELAND.
Ireland was bombed by accident by the Germans.
Australia is completely irrelevant to the world. And that is a good thing. It’s precisely why Australia is the an obvious place for neutrality.
But, like the Voice, Australia’s wonderful role in the world is just part of the wider received wisdom!
Enjoy your stuff Maldinis, but would you really have preferred the Nazis to win? How far away was the Battle of Coral Sea to Australia (hint: the Barrier reef is the coral in question).
Never said Sweden was too small to bother, they just made loads selling iron ore to the Nazis.
Well yes, Ireland’s history is problematic, and prob explains De Valera holding a reqeuim mass for Hitler, but they still provided no assistance to the Allies while benefiting from the fact the Nazis lost (except the North of course).
At the time Australia joined the war Australia was committing genocide against its own indigenous people.
Australia entering the war on the side of “good” v “evil” has actually allowed Australia to distance itself from its own genocidal history.
Australia was never a realistic target for the axis powers. Japan was far more concerned with China and Korea, and Europe is so far that we were never under any serious threat from the Nazis.
As for selling resources to brutal regimes – well isn’t that what Australia is doing now with China? And that is with the knowledge of climate change!
Ireland didn’t engage in WW2 because it recognised WW1 had been a war fought by colonialists where Ireland was forced to fight. We also had just been through a civil war. Ireland was so sick of war and violence that we decided not to arm our police force!
Something that would help indigenous Australians now!
Understand why Ireland headed by De Valera did not join WW2, but does not change the fact this aided the NazIs, esp re U boats in the Atlantic. Ireland was not forced to fight in WW1, there was no conscription but many volunteered for the British army. Actually, modern Ireland is a great example of escaping from traps of history, not angsting any more about who did what in 1690 etc. Let’s not stay trapped here, as you agree re the Voice. Australia was actually pretty exposed in 1942, but because of Midway etc the threat receded. Cheers
Ireland did provide assistance to the Allies during WW2: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality_during_World_War_II
In the 1930s, Australians seeing themselves as British was not in conflict with a sense of ‘Australianness’. In his radio address, Menzies refers to Britain as the ‘Mother Country’.”
There was also the moral aspect of going to war with a brutal dictator whose aim was to subjugate all of Europe, anyone else who stood in his way, and who initiated and carried out the holocaust.
You may have some semblance of credibility on WW 1, but we were also constrained to Menzies’ course (see above).
What you leave out is that it’s successive Coalition governments that have sent Australians to their deaths in foreign adventures. It’s the cons who get us into wars, and Labor that gets us out. To omit that fact is obfuscation at best.
The issue behind the Voice is not ‘nationalism’, but recognition that they exist and every whiteman’s policy inflicted on them has failed. Non-recognition of that fact is willful blindness and an expression of an even more divisive and hateful system – colonialism.
Nationalism is the opposite of internationalism, the champions of which are the people who haven’t learned from history and retain their out-dated religion of communism.
Well AUKUS was more popular when the populist Morrison was Prime Minister (although he had started to lose his popularity).
It’s noticeable how the criticism of the deal has increased since Labor came power.
Australia has some serious abandonment issues when it comes to Britain….
Ignoring the fact that the Allies created the conditions for Hitler by failing to take responsibility for WW1, the whole moral justification for WW2 was largely introduced afterwards. Hitler did what many other madmen in Europe had done previously including the leaders of Britain and France.
I mean you don’t get to be the biggest empire in the world by knocking on doors and asking nicely.
Also those same other empires had committed similar atrocities against groups including of course indigenous Australians.
I still believe WW2 represents a watershed moment for humanity. A combination of technology, increased education and democratisation, media coverage, and the sheer scale of the war and risk of nuclear war, forced this consciousness.
Labor in Australia are just as obsessed with Australia’s militarisation and are probably more so now that the Coalition are a bunch of extremists and Labor represent the establishment (it’s similar to what’s happened in the US and Britain).
The Voice is about nationalism – or at least identity politics. Nationalism is fundamentally about someone feeling they have some connection to a place because they were born there, when that was an entirely random event that occurred in the universe.
I would support a truth commission into the acts of genocide committed against indigenous Australians (or just teaching this stuff in schools) but, having learned from history, I know that such a thing would be difficult to achieve.
Your response to my reply re WW 2 is just an exercise in what-aboutery, and has no validity nor ethical validity.
You apply your western standards of land attachment to an identification that is completely at odds with the ethos and source of aboriginal identity – that they belong to the land not just physically but spiritually,. To dismiss this identity as ‘just being born there”is not only culturally insensitive, but puts you in the same class as Barnaby Joyce and ilk. Best you just stop digging this particular hole.
I think I was having a seperate discussion about WW2.
Why is “spirituality” a valid consideration for indigenous people but not for others?
Should the government also get input from the Catholic Church?
The fact is spirituality has no place in what should be evidenced based policy.
I’m insensitive to all cultures and things. I like to keep consistent….
So you’re voting no? Exactly how will that address you concerns for indigenous Australians?
The only reason I can think to vote “yes” is because I think it would be good to have some recognition in the constitution and also I don’t like most of the people pushing “no”.
But equally given the general antagonism from the “yes” side, and the fact that Labor are using the Voice to distract from their lack of doing anything about climate change and the cost of living….
PS Do you think politicians will listen more to the Voice or their donors?
Am I getting this right?
The writers of the Uluṟu Statement and 80% of Indigenous people are telling us that the Voice to Parliament will make a positive difference for them.
But you know better and think it won’t!
I wonder who I should be listening to?
Because clearly you are not listening to Indigenous people. And this may come as a surprise – but it’s about Indigenous people!!!
Populist policies tend to be….popular.
A majority of people voted for Brexit.
74m people voted for Trump.
Why is only one side that can be misguided?
I think one issue with the Voice is that it is driven by nationalism and identity politics. It’s precisely the reason that indigenous people and the wider view that there needs to be specific attention given to “indigenous issues” is actually part of the problem.
Indigenous people being killed by police is not an “indigenous issue”. It’s a massive issue that needs to be addressed. There doesn’t need to be any consultation.
Higher incarceration rates, lower unemployment, lower life expectancies, and all the other challenges facing indigenous people are not “indigenous issues”. They’re issues.
As I said above one the biggest problems with the Voice is that it actually reinforces institutional racism by having a seperate institution for indigenous people.
I’m not sure it’s been thought out. This is generally what happens with identity politics.
I’ll give it a go Maldinis.
a) it’s much more than symbolism. It’s about being heard. Being listened to. The VtP will give Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander people a platform for educating Australians about how they and their culture are impacted by govt policies. For 2 centuries now, their culture and their ways have largely been ignored.
The fact that the VtP has no power gives rise to the mere symbolism critique, but symbolism can be powerful and isn’t always empty.
I don’t agree it will be divisive, and don’t understand why you do. Please explain.
b)The Indigenous people believe the VtP will help reduce institutional racism. This is their solution, and ours have failed miserably. I’m happy to give their solution a go in good faith.
c) Just because you don’t understand the difference it will make doesn’t mean it won’t make one. Again, if it proves false hope created, that false hope has been created by the Indigenous themselves, and again, I’m not going to second guess them. They’ve suffered, they’ve lived through plenty of attempts to solve that haven’t worked…it’s worth giving their purported solution a go.
d) I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m part of a local Yes23 group, and we’re very much focussed on being polite and courteous to everyone.
e) That’s your opinion. Interestingly, it might be Megan Davis’ too. In Australian Story on Monday night, she says she repeatedly warned the delegates at Uluru how difficult it was to get constitutional change up. But they insisted.
I don’t believe the VtP will achieve record-breaking change. But if you read the Uluru Statement from the Heart, you’ll see that the Voice is the first of a 3-step process. Together, Voice, Treaty & Truth will create incredible change.
Again, please explain why you believe the Voice to Parliament is divisive. I’m not getting those vibes…
Thank you for your detailed response and, as a local Yes23 group member, they are very lucky to have someone who is taking the time to respond to queries properly. It’s a shame Albanese isn’t doing the same but he does tend to be a little more tetchy now he’s PM. Just ask the Greens!
In response:
a) If the Voice provides a formal process that forces politicians to listen then, yes, that would be a positive outcome. My issue is that politicians, including this Labor government (who are supposed to be better than the Coalition) don’t listen to anyone. Labor are threatening a double dissolution because it’s outraged that the Senate is doing its job!
Symbolism is hugely problematic for many reasons. Symbolism leads to existential crisis that go to the heart of identity. For centuries symbolism has been used to convince the masses to go to war: over flags, over gods, over lines on maps.
The Voice, like all forms of symbolism, is divisive. Look at how many people are on the ‘no’ side. It’s the mistake that we keep making these days. We assume that we can fight every fight, and win every argument. But we can’t. Every fight we fight we lose someone along the way. Like those indigenous people opposed to the Voice.
Because we lose people in every fight we fight, we have to pick fights that matter. That actually deliver something tangible.
b) Is there a possibility indigenous people are wrong? There’s numerous examples of groups, especially downtrodden groups, reaching for the wrong solutions to their problems. Like those genuinely downtrodden who voted for Trump or Brexit, or decided not to vote at all in those crucial elections. How many people vote for the Coalition when it’s directly against their self-interest?
c) False hope is dangerous because it again feeds that symbolism which itself is dangerous.
d) Look at some comments around here in response to my questions. If I had a dollar for every “yes” person whose best argument is “find out yourself”.
e) The reason I hate referenda is because they’re divisive, they generally are simplistic, and they ask the public questions that usually the public haven’t got a clue about. There are some exceptions. Ireland has needed quite a few referenda to fix the constitution that was drafted in the early 1900s under the oppressive regime of the Catholic Church.
The big issue with all of this is that it is scratching around the edges. It’s all political theory really. Big ideas that lack any real substance or even need.
We need to start with affirmative action now. There’s no need for a referendum. The federal government needs to be make funding for states dependent on active recruitment of indigenous people into the judiciary, police, health services, prisons etc.
The best way to stop an indigenous person from being killed by police is to have an indigenous police officer present, and an indigenous judge prosecuting the wrongdoers. Murder is already a crime.
Thanks Maldinis,
I’ll respond to a couple of your rebuttals.
I agree that symbolism CAN be problematic, but I disagree that it always is. You could argue that African American sportsmen who knelt during the anthem didn’t achieve much, so the drama they created and suffered was a wasted effort. I would disagree, as it created greater awareness about the racism they faced. On the surface that action appeared to create division, but I’d argue that division already existed, and all taking a knee did was bring it to the surface. And that’s a good thing, because in clear view it can no longer be ignored and instead be dealt with.
I see the VtP performing a similar role. They will educate us about the difficulties they face, and how we can do better. It might look divisive, but the division already exists. I’m not a racist, but….
How many times have we heard that??
Think of the symbolism an 80% Yes vote creates. Then flip it and think about a resounding No vote. One symbolises acceptance and the other rejection. Opposite symbols…they both can’t be creating division.
Yes, there is a possibility the Indigenous leaders who designed this are wrong and it won’t help. But flip that coin – it’s possible they’re dead right. Having lived through multiple failures, our First Nations people are best positioned to solve their problems. If we care about equity, if we care about social justice, we must give them a chance.
I agree that many who suffer the most from Trump / Brexit / LNP policies vote for them. But that is due to marketing trickery and the voters ignorance of such ploys. Trump / Brexit / LNP policies were never created by the poor and downtrodden, like the VtP concept has. That is a key difference.
Your idea about additional funding for Indigenous traineeships in policework, the judicial system, healthcare, etc. has some merit, but there are systemic barriers that also need to be addressed. Police forces in particular have been found to be racist institutions.
The problems Indigenous people face are broad and complex. The VtP won’t fix everything; it isn’t a panacea. It is but one small step in the right direction. And importantly, it’s a cost free step. It costs us nothing.
I’ll be very saddened if Australia refuses to take that step. Hope you join me in voting Yes.
Sorry for the delay in responding and appreciate you taking the time to go through this.
You have done more than most to convince me.
I’ll respond briefly to your post:
Now is probably the most dangerous time to be engaged in symbolism due to the threat of the far right and the weaponisation of social media. I’m not suggesting we should ever cower to those scumbags but this again is why we need to pick our battles.
Like you’ve said one thing that is pushing me to vote “yes” is the impact a “no” vote will have on the indigenous community and the wider community which will be amplified by the media treating it as the end of days. But there’s never been a worst time to put this to a vote, and there is a significant risk it will fail.
And there is marketing trickery happening on the “yes” side particularly from the government that is pushing it in lieu of policies, and a media and brands (even BHP) who are using it to distract from their very many crimes including against indigenous people.
The fact that you and I both acknowledge the police force and other institutions are institutionally racist shows why it’s so important not to waste time. We need to get on with affirmative action now. More so as that institutional racism could get even worse in response to the voice.
You’ve done more than most to convince me, and I do think deep down I will end up voting “yes” but being quite sceptical about it. Fingers crossed it does pass for the reasons you’ve said – the message it will send will be terrible (even without the substance).
Thanks for ‘adulting’ with me Maldinis.
No need to apologise for a tardy response…I’ve been off-line for a couple of days myself.
I accept your concern about the danger of symbolism due to the way certain actors use it via traditional and social media to divide. It really is a massive problem having the majority of media controlled by rich people, who all seem to have similar views on capitalism, workers rights, etc.
I note with interest your view about picking battles. I listened to Megan Davis at a referendum panel, and she acknowledged that while the topics that the Indigenous VtP could speak on were almost infinite, she stressed that for it to be effective, for it to gain any traction, they would need to be selective about what they spoke up about. You guys share a pragmatic view.
And yes, the time is now. Action is long overdue, and an unsuccessful referendum will only delay real and impactful change.
Cheers
I don’t think it’s rubbish at all. The last time they had any semblance of a voice was with ATSIC, which Howard disbanded because he didn’t like what they were saying.
If they were being heard, they would have constitutional recognition, they’d have their stolen wages repaid, they’d have significant reparation payments flowing to them due the historical abuse they suffered, and society as a whole would pay a lot more than lip service to their culture(s).
They wouldn’t be up in arms when mining companies destroy their sacred places, or when pollution muddies up their ancient gathering spots. And they wouldn’t suffer systemic and institutionalised racism like they (still!) do.
Seeing as their land was stolen, their sovereignty never ceded, and the impacts of intergenerational trauma bestowed upon them, they have FAR bigger claims than “…twice the rate of funding as any other Australian”.
If we heard Indigenous Australians voices better, and treated them with the empathy all humans deserve, they wouldn’t be so disadvantaged.
Exactly. This is where the Voice is heading. The full-on hair-shirt. But it is generally unstated, and is specifically unstated in the proposal. Everything you mention, I do not want. What I would like to know is where all the money goes. Does this not interest you?
If you don’t want all humans treated with dignity, empathy and respect, then it’s little wonder you are voting No.
On the money issue. I don’t know if your ‘twice the rate’ claim is true, but I’ll accept it at face value. But even then, this expenditure pales in comparison with defence spending, tax cuts for higher earners, fossil fuel subsidies, and the profligate waste seen in porkbarrelling exercises such as Sports Rorts, Carpark Rorts, the Gas-led Recovery, and their ilk.
So no, I’m not super interested in the detail of where funding for societies most disadvantaged goes.
If you don’t know whether “…your ‘twice the rate’ claim is true…” it is easily ascertainable.
There is this wonderful new invention called a search engine and an even old one called the ABS (bureau of stats. as was) wherein anyone can find the figures on the mega amounts wasted over the last 40yrs for less than zero benefit.
You might even find the sorry tale of ATSIC, the corruption, nepotism and blithering incompetence (to be generous) of all concerned.
IF the claim that the so-called Gap is widening is true…which it must be coz every media outlet and pot stirrer sez so.
@ Muleskinner
Leaving aside the questions of rights and wrongs about our genocide of the blackfellas, none of which is contained in the Voice. It is only conjecture that the things you say you are against will ever take place.
It woild help if some naysayers can just openly admit that they don’t and won’t admit to Australia’s past because it’s too inconvenient and they would rather keep the disempowerment, discrimination, violence, theft, killings and rape of their fellow citizens in place just because they’re black.
Yes indeed. The claim that Indigenous Australians have received twice the funding of other Australians hardly compensates for the theft of an entire continent from its original inhabitants. It is also ironic that the most vehement proponents of the rubbish that the Indigenous weren’t entitled to be angry about the appropriation of their country are the ones who squeal the loudest about refugees in boats coming to take their land and jobs.
Tone deaf goes nowhere near describing these twats.
One of many reasons that the voice will fail to get up is the idea it will lead to disputed sovereignty, and demands for reparations for “the theft of an entire continent”. All countries have difficult histories, few willingly chose to cede sovereignty anywhere. Should the Romans now compensate the Celts?
Many indigenous people have white ancesters, should they compensate themselves? ATSIC was a total failure, their No 1 guy found guilty of rape in civil case and also being charged with fraud. Tbf, all other approaches have failed too, but there has been no shortage of money spent. A treaty is prob a good idea, but depends what is in it. If it needs to have equal indigenous sovereignty over the entire country it will never happen.
hank you for that expostion.
Extremely well put, plainly and simply enough even for the cognitively challenged here.
If those reality-ignorant advocates were really concerned about the putative ‘Gap’ rather than their own feelzings they should ponder how points you make in para. D (especially but not exclusively).
It needs to be explained how a YES will magick away the systemic social deficit and cultural collapse of the Indigene fringe dwellers and how yet another pack of tenured coconuts shuffling paper in air conditioned offices, polishing seats while waiting for a gold plated pension will change anything, for the better.
History demonstrates how it would make things far worse – bureaucrats never say “Job done, time to wind up.” – it’s not in the nature of the species.
…”Thank you for that exposition.”
@ Maldinis Heir
@ 763520ce2ab6d54d2cc9c0e1d588353b This is a prime example of the quality of thinking that backs your stances.
Nobody makes this straw man argument except people trying to pretend others are making it.
No “pretend” – every 2nd proponent here and elsewhere claim PRECISELY that.
Should be trivial to give ten examples then.
As nobody has yet taken up the challenge, I shall. Not to try to convince you of the merit of the YES vote, because I think as with Thatcher, you are not for turning, but because your comments need to be examined and where appropriate, rebutted.
a) “symbolic”. What it will achieve is an awareness hitherto missing from the general public of the evils visited upon the blackfellas and a sense of them actually being a part of the nation, which our current and past behaviors have refuted. That will lead to advice from them actually being given a chance to be acted upon, rather than the 230 year-old imposition of unsuitable policies from the colonialist mentality.
b) >80% of of blackfellas support the Voice – that does not preclude them fro taking part in any other body or organisation.
There are 11 commonwealth MPs who identify as indigenous obviously it doesn’t prevent blackfellas from participating in any body.
c) ‘False hope”. Yet again, >80% support it – who is anyone to deny their right to be heard just because they think they know better ?
d) It’s not in lieu of anything – in fact it’s the precursor to improvement to those entrenched colonialist behaviours. All policies made so far have been without consultation – how can continuing along the same path fix the problem ?
dii) A disingenuous argument. The YES case has properly engaged from the very start, trying to guide the unknowledgeable along the path of knowledge by referring to the articles of the Voice itself and to the source, The Statement from the Heart, to the various opinions of esteemed legal minds, including very, very few opponents, and providing rebuttals to the many obviously ill-informed questions posed by naysayers.
They even enter into non- personal dialogues with people who masquerade as having open minds, but are really just gaslighters. You make no mention of the behavior of those whom Maeve McGregor has pointed to – the original sources of the gaslighting. Hardly an impartial argument to tell only one side ?
e) “Referenda are generally a bad idea.”
Irrelevant. And it is what is called for by the blackfellas themselves, for the sole reason that they are too well aware that the next cons government and every subsequent one will tear a legislated body down – as they did to Medicare, continue to do when they get the chance with Medicare. as they did with ATSIC, as they did in arguing and succeeding in that argument before the High court that having the authority to make laws regarding aboriginals Aust. Constitution S51 (xxvi) that that authority did not preclude them from making laws to the detriment of blackfellas.
Your concluding sentence is purely false equivalence. The Voice is not a policy, it is the expressed wish of the poorest, most disadvantaged part of our society to be heard by way of a referendum.
It is disingenuous at best to argue about ‘lack of detail’ when anyone with your obvious level of intelligence can claim the ‘detail’ called for by the naysayers cannot be provided and never has been in a referendum. If you are as informed as you claim to be, you would be well aware that the detail is subject to the parliament as a whole if the referendum is passed, so that the ability to change according to circumstance is rightly under the control of the parliament, not ossified in the constitution.
Your whole post is redolent of the sort of often sophisticated, verbiage we get from ingrained naysayers, all of whom are easily factually and philosophically dismissed, but who, unfortunately take up too much otherwise useful time.
I hope you are not one of them, as you claim.
A very confident response but doesn’t really address my concerns, just sort of assumes stuff and uses a typical “Yes” argument – we have to vote “Yes” because this is what people asked for…..
I’ve responded in more detail to Johan A. Rarebit, which I think addresses some of your points above.
Like you say the Voice is not a policy, and I am only interested in policies…
It’s policies that make a difference. And we don’t need precursors to policies. We just need policies.
As for the lack of detail – whatever about the role of parliament (and you seem to acknowledge that as soon as the Coalition get in they’ll start dismantling the Voice anyway (not that will need to do anything other than ignore it)) – it wouldn’t kill Anthony “Small Target” Albanese to provide some vague ideas about how he sees the thing working in practice.
Like how it will be constituted, what specific issues it will be consulted on (I am not sure how this can be limited), what will the consultation process look like…..
There are similarities with “small target” Brexit (and I believe a Brexit person is involved on the “Yes” side). The secret to success for Brexit (and Trump) was that it presented itself as all things to all people. If you were on the left, it was a rejection of noe-liberalism, if you were on the right it was rejection of socialism, if you were in business it was a rejection of red tape, if you were a worker it was a rejection of those coming ‘ere takin’ ire’ jabs’, if you were old it was like going back to the old days, if you were young it was the future….
The “Yes” campaign is also trying to be all things to all people. One the one hand it’s trying to say to traditional conservatives that it’s not big deal, and on the other hand it’s saying to indigenous people that it’s the answer. We get different answers on what are the issues that “directly” affect indigenous people (I can’t really see what issues don’t affect them and everyone else).
In fact it’s this notion that there are only issues that affect indigenous people or that they can somehow be separated from society. All issues affect them. More so given the inequality. So RBA interest rises (which disproportionately are hammering the worse off and driving inflation) definitely affect indigenous people. But I assume, the Voice, like parliament and everyone else, will have no say in what the RBA does (for its mates in the banks).
Disingenuous.
You first claim to have reservations because of the as yet unpresented policies that might flow from the referendum, and now claim to be interested only in policies. Yet there are no policies andcannot be even contemplated until the referendum has passed.
How can you justify wanting to block on the basis of policies that do not and may not ever exist ?
The ‘details’ you want even as vague details are out there – if you had any genuine interest in being impartial, you would avail yourself of them.
You imply that there are two differing views being presented to the electorate by Labor. As you should be well aware, this is nothing to do with Labor – it is the request of the Statement from the Heart, an all-aboriginal committee. Consultation is to take place only on proposed or existing laws that DIRECTLY affect aborigines and only aborigines, as has been stated and explained thousands of times.
Last para – they are indeed seperated from the rest of society already and have been since 1901 – Australian Constitution S51 (xxvi).
The YES vote may well fail on lack of detail. Remember John Howard successfully killed off the referendum for the appointment for an Australian head of state. He did that by going to a referendum before telling us the model for that appointment process. Australians rightly voted no because they were being asked to vote for a pig-in-a-poke, as they are with the Voice referendum.
@ Muleskinner
!00% wrong.
The model for the republic referendum was well known beforehand and rejected by the majority because it didn’t allow the popular view (over 60%) that the president should be directly elected by the people.
The model was that a vote of 66% by the parliament was the method of selection, which was forced on the Constitutional Convention by Howard openly refusing to accept any other model, knowing it would therefore fail. And that dismissal of the president was purely in the hands of the PM of the day.
A scurvy trick by one of the most mendacious politicains and also the most ruinous PM in Australia’s history.
One of my wishes is to keep seeing Howard humiliated by where he led the cons, not that he would ever admit to it.
I’m not sure you’re really engaging with my points.
You seem more interested in attacking me or trying to find some kind of motivation than dealings with the points. I suggest you look at Johan A. Rarebit‘a posts to see how to properly engage on this topic.
I’ve been quite clear that I’m only interested in policy and I’ve also made it abundantly clear that we don’t and shouldn’t need to wait for the voice to introduce policy.
We could start affirmative action today without the voice. The issue is that Labor is using the voice in lieu of actual policies.
The (at least) two different views is in reference to the “yes” campaign trying to be all things to all people to get to is across the line.
I’m really struggling with this notion that there are issues that DIRECTLY impact indigenous people and not others because
a) most issues affect them; and
b) most issues affect everyone,
and you can’t really separate out the two.
The problem for indigenous communities all over the world is that they never gained independence. And, unlike places like Scotland and Wales, are not neatly separated by geography within their countries, where there can be some form devolution (and note before Brexit I was opposed to Scottish independence as I’m opposed to most forms of nationalism and going it alone).
Therefore indigenous people are affected by nearly every policy.
Take climate change for example – we’re all in the same boat on that one.
The notion that indigenous issues are somehow separate is precisely the problem with the voice.
Like I said above deaths in police custody are not an indigenous issue. They’re an issue that the whole of society needs to address.
What’s the difference between the stolen generation and simple kidnapping? (Actually the stolen generation could form part of the act of genocide as the crime includes forcibly transferring children of a group to another group).
There are laws and customs in place for dealing with many of the issues indigenous people have faced. The issue is that these have never been addressed due to institutional racism. And, as mentioned, setting up another institution won’t address institutional racism in existing institutions.
To the censors – why have you wiped my critique of Maldinis Heir’s post above ? It was not abusive, it answered rationally without going off track, was well argued and was a perfectly reasonable response to a series of assertions masquerading as a rational argument. Don’t you like involved arguments; is it easier just to let people fulminate without question ?
To the censors –
PLease ignore my above post -my response has been shifted and I hadn’t seen down that far. My apologies.
It’s good to see these questions put out there, because they can help clarify for me how I try and convince my NO friends to change their vote.
a) Symbolism is incredibly important. For me, this is the the number one reason to vote YES. In fact, the narratives we tell ourselves shape us in every arena of our lives, from our personal mythologies, up to the level of nation, and into humanity. TvP is a chance for us to incorporate the indigenous experience into the identity of the nation in a way that is meaningful on a political level.
b) I don’t see this as relevant, because I see TvP through the lens of a celebration and acknowledgement of our oldest peoples. We aren’t trying to manage them, encourage, or dissuade them from anything. We are merely acknowledging their struggles.
c) It may create false hope, but this isn’t really here nor there. It’s certainly not an argument against the recognition of First Nations people.
d) this is a false dichotomy. This doesn’t preclude any other programs, and if anything TvP will streamline further programs.
d)(2) the ‘yes’ campaign and the ‘no’ campaign both have those among their number who resort to the usual politicking and nonsense. This isn’t a material argument for or against the policy.
e) Are referenda a terrible idea? Either way, it’s no reason to vote NO.
The indigenous peoples of Australia are already special case. Because we do carry our history as colonisers in our national psyche, whether manifested as shame, resentment, or anger. Again, to me, stories matter. The stories we tell ourselves matter.
I am politically a reformer. I don’t think revolution, or radicalism have any place in building harmony. I see this as a small, mostly symbolic reform that will help heal our national psyche. Brexit tanked the UK economy. That ain’t this. Trump’s Wall was an infantile fantasy.
Also, there isn’t a total lack of detail in the voice. It is clear that it won’t have its hands on the levers of power. My last appeal is this: lots of upside, no downside, baby!
Hi, Stath. I’ts welcoming to see both you and Johan A. Rarebitas well as myself pointing out the logical inconsistencies and self-contradictions in Maldinis Heir‘s assertions. It seems to me that he contributions come from a different planet – the planet of never do anything that may upset the apple cart. So much for being a socialist libertarian !
Libertarian in my experience really means exploitation of the many by the few.
Interesting you focus on the libertarian side v socialist side.
A key part of socialism is the collective which is why I’m not huge fan of culture wars which are used to divide.
If I’m a private operator of the NDIS I’m probably loving the Voice. I’ll get some brand recognition going…
Hello Maldinis
Hope you’re having a lovely weekend
My responses:
a) Not symbolic… Will (if successful) provide government with guidance on the (often) unintended consequences and effective delivery of policy – who can forget the harms caused by the Howard “Intervention”???
b) Definitely not a “separate institution”, any more than, for example, the Mental Health Commission or Aged Care Quality and Safety Advisory Council
c) HUGE assumption!!! And anyway – can only improve the already hopeless situation of indigenous people… Better to try something new, advocated in the Statement from the Heart than do nothing – have you read it? In any case, I suggest you listen to Megan Davis recite it here Uluru Statement from the Heart – Seriously Social
d) sorry – isn’t it the No campaign name calling, and the Yes campaign (unfortunately) refusing to get into “culture wars” responses? Indigenous voice: ‘I am not interested in culture wars,’ says Linda Burney – video | Australia news | The Guardian
e) no response
Hope this helps…
@ Phil Benjamin
It’s amazing how alike all the naysaying bloviators are. Gaslighting with spurious arguments that have been refuted hundreds of times before, a refusal to “accept the premise of the question” ( remind you of someone ? ) and having no rational and intelligible response to critiques or facts.
Not that all are like that, just certain types.
The misuse of the term “gaslighting” points to a wider issue where people are so entrenched in their own worldview that they simply can’t conceive that another person might disagree with them or that their might be a different point of view.
a) Why does the government need a special body to give it “guidance” and what “guidance” does government need to eg hold police account for killing people?
And I’m not sure the Voice would do much to prevent the Howard intervention given the various forces at play in that:
https://newmatilda.com/2017/06/28/a-decade-on-the-fraud-of-the-nt-intervention-is-exposed/?amp_markup=1
b) We didn’t need a referendum to establish those advisory councils. This is a constitutionally recognised body and it will act as a sort of funnel for indigenous people to give guidance on “indigenous issues” eg please stop the police from killing us, rather than going through the formal processes eg launching criminal proceedings against said police.
c) I have. It doesn’t really address my concerns and actually reinforces my concern that the voice will be more focused on spiritual rather than practical issues. Whilst people are free to believe whatever they like, governments need to be guided evidence.
d) I’ve been called racist a few times on here….and Linda Burney has been so defensive throughout this process. A common theme in these polarised times is that all sides call each other names and each side then accuses the others of name calling….
Your points are reasonable concerns however they are not really a No case. More a recognition that the Voice is a stepping stone towards a treaty (and terror of terrors for the right, restitution of some form).
The Voice IS NOT the desired end point but part of a longer process to determine an effective end point / treaty / settlement (ie Indigenous / Settler Australians reconciled to each other).
It’s entirely reasonable to vote Yes while having your reservations.
Vote Yes for paying reparations! Now there’s a winning slogan if ever I heard one. But agree it might be better to specify the end point, except there probably isnt one that people would agree to.
You’d have to look at other settler nations – aka the various Americas – to see if that’s actually happened.
I have NFI what the end point should be. TBH most of the problems are unfixable at least WRT the individuals damaged now and those dispossessed in the past. The past crimes can never be fixed.
The trouble with an endpoint is it can become “ok, ya got what ya wanted now FO” – this is a big concern regarding the Voice where it becomes “the end point” rather than “a stepping stone”.
I’m still voting Yes. Something is better than nothing.
And good luck, your view is reasonable. But why do people only focus on Anglo settler nations, every country is a settler nation except a few pacific islands and even there Fiji asked to become a British colony to save being invaded by the French. History is a lot of nasty stuff everywhere. Dont think in Canada or US Indigenous people claim sovereignty over the entire country, usually it is their own bit as the country did not exist before settlement. Likewise here.
Most of the Americas were settled by Spain, Portugal and the French. Much of the work of pacifying the indigenous populations was done by introduced disease. As was the case here in Oz.
Asian and African nations didn’t suffer from this accidental bio warfare – the indigenous populations remained the majority who then claimed “sovereignty over their entire countries” – often violently – as the European empires collapsed.
So it’s not just the anglos or even Europeans eg the Chinese in Tibet, the Kurds arbitrarily split across invented countries. What is the war in Ukraine or the violence in Israel about?
There can’t be an end point because this is an existential crisis.
It’s part of the reason why populists use these type of issue to retain relevance and power.
The phrase “final territorial demand” springs to mind. Cede once and there will be more, without end.
As demonstrated by the constant further encroachments onto sanity and the public sphere by the alphabet soup brigade – don’t imagine they will stop with (publicly funded) hormones & surgery.
What next, zoophilia (the original reason herders opted for male circumcision, too much animal husbandry) or necro/paedophilia?
Well since I’m probably against a Treaty and restitution….
I’m generally also against living in the past since that is what is driving so much division around the world.
I’m not against funding or actual policies for dealing issues facing people now and in the future.
In the case of First Nations people the issue is indeed existential.
That doesn’t make it “populist” but it does mean it won’t go away by hoping indigenous people will “stop living in the past” – that’s your personal view of life but I’d argue it’s also the view a thief takes WRT the property they have stolen.
An “end point” (whatever it is) would mean exactly as you state above that “indigenous issues” would just be “issues”.
That’s currently not the case based on actual evidence not some professionally manipulated nationalist piffle as drove Brexit and Trump.
What IS populist is metaphorically kicking the cr*p out of a weak minority while blaming them for some target groups problems or dog whistling that you support their prejudices.
But it’s existential for true blue Aussies as well. And many aren’t exactly set up for contemplating philosophical questions so will simply lash out.
And existentialism is not something that anyone can ever hope to resolve because the answers lie in the mysteries of the universe.
It’s not my personal view that people should stop living in the past, it’s been a prerequisite for resolving nearly every war or sectarian issue ever.
As part of the northern Irish peace deal they had to release known murderers and criminals from prison. The people accepted the release of a person who had killed their loved one because that was the price of peace.
The reality is there is no compensation, no resolution that could ever address the suffering they indigenous people have suffered. The focus on that is directly impacting our ability to deal with the present and the future.
Piffle – there’s no comparison.
Ofcourse no full restitution is possible – but as with a crime there is some level of agreed compensation owed even if it can never replace what was lost.
For dispossession / genocide / loss of culture what is adequate? All the worst protagonists are dead but the after effects linger on as does the power imbalance.
I’ve written this before and crikey censored it: White Supremacy and all of its evil manifestations inherent in Australian DNA, in its history, and it is exemplified by the Hansons, the Duttons, the Howards, and silly collaborators like Price who will ensure that nothing changes.
Correct, if one were to condense all the “NO” arguments, it is the legacy of the “White Australia” which is still at work,
Who let yoda in to the cricket @ lords ?
The strategies employed by Dutton and his ilk are just despicable and reminiscent of fascist campaign strategies as outlined by Umberto Eco in Ur-Fascism.
Ultimately, Dutton is just a white nationalist racist.
It’s not surprising that the data out today shows that millennials and zoomers will keep the LNP out of power for up to six elections.
The terror for Dutton, Howard et al isn’t an issue of race but of the possible restitution / compensation owed to first nations people.
If “The Voice” gets up, not only will I be delighted but I’ll thank everyone (every “Yes” voter) involved with its success. If the “No” vote gets up, I’ll lay the blame firmly on Peter Dutton’s Liberal party, David Littleproud’s National party and right-wing media whom control msm in Australia.
Yes listen to Noel Pearson’s voice and do not relinquish power to cynicism.
Optimism -powers our humanity; and gawd we already have vested interests and their lobbists in government; subcontracting governance and accountability – whittling public assets into private corps – so what is left of our dwindling agency. So the Voice committee may balance some of the rot ir not – Vote Yes
I think Albo has dropped the ball. He allowed his vanity to get in the way (“The Voice, My Legacy”). Being PM has gone to his head. He has stopped listening. Doing nothing about Stage 3 tax cuts is another example. Albo is burning through his political capital by thinking he knows best.
I would argue I like ego in a politician(Gough to name the man who brought Australia to life and spoke truth to power and indifference ) as long as they can deliver good governance and human services whilst keeping the pigs from Our Collective trough – Australians’ resources; Sadly a very ugly and sinister neo lib agenda seems to have poisoned the water in the right wing and “Labor” Parties literally . The Voice ( or the use of a representative to Parliament) is first a start; a gesture;possibly more – It is not a panacea , no, but maybe a better way forward towards Treaty and equity for all of us
Gough was FRESH AIR, basics for whole communities.
Has being PM gone to his head or does he think he has to be involved in every issue if they are to get attention? The result is, he is spreading himself too thin. The Voice is getting too little attention like more and more other issues.
Maeve says Albanese’s approval rating is dropping. I don’t think we need to look any further afield to understand why.
The political capital being wasted on this dead cat means less oxygen for things that matter – little things like housing, dumping USUKA, having a real FICAC, ending neolib nutbaggery and mass immigration to lower wages even further and ensure workers are so vulnerable that they daren’t object.
AA is a backdoor…room numbers man – he has never had an idea in his ethics free life as a mindless apparatchik and creature of SussexSt.
I agree with your list of things that matter, but why doesn’t the Voice to Parliament matter to you?
Because it is a sham, a political stunt confected by the usual suspects for different but equally dubious reasons.
It is meant to distract from multiple intrinsic government perfidies – not failures but refusals to address real issues.
The political capital, communal goodwill and effort that has been wasted cannot be a result of the usual simple stupidity but deliberate and carefully calibrated.
To what end, apart from political instability and continued division?
“Because it is a sham, a political stunt confected by the usual suspects for different but equally dubious reasons.”
Wow. There’s a lot to unpack in this 1 short sentence!
A sham – I can only think of the VtP in completely opposite terms. I do not understand why you believe it is a sham. I see it as a wonderful opportunity to show some love to Australia’s First Nations people; a significant step in righting historical (and current) wrongs. And I’ve been surprised by the vitriol it’s copping, because we aren’t being asked to forego anything – an Indigenous VtP costs us literally nothing. Furthermore, Indigenous Parliaments are running in other countries (see the Sami IP in Norway), and they work.
Please explain why you think the VtP is a sham.
Political stunt – the process of designing Constitutional recognition for Indigenous people, by Indigenous people, was kicked off by Julia Gillard, when she was PM. Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull also facilitated the ongoing process. That’s a 10yr long stunt! Impressive.
Confected by the usual suspects – uh, this idea was formulated by Indigenous leaders, chosen by their communities, through deliberative process. I have met two local Indigenous leaders, who are signatories to the Uluru SftH, and they’re ordinary Indigenous people. Are these women your “usual suspects”?
Dubious reasons – what are these dubious reasons Indigenous people want Constitutional recognition?
I’m seeing that a LOT of ppl view this referendum as an ALP thing. And if they’re anti-ALP (Shit~Lite!) they are anti-voice. But this is not an ALP thing, it’s an Indigenous thing. They designed this, they wanted it.
Have you read the Uluru Statement from the Heart?
@ Johan A. Rarebit
Unfortunately, truth, facts and reason are anathema to haters. Which is why they can never address the question, but instead rely on vitriol to try to beat their opponents down.
@ 763520ce2ab6d54d2cc9c0e1d588353b
Albo comes from Melbourne, so Trades Hall. Fact free as usual.
wha…”Albo comes from Melbourne..”?
Never had a real job after finding 2yrs in the Commonwealth bank too much like work, he is the quintessential creature of SussexSt – presumably where you met him when he was tending your pod.
You may be thinking of your other L/O, the serial failure Shorten.
Pod spawned clones tend not to be able to distinguish between humans.
@ 763520ce2ab6d54d2cc9c0e1d588353b
Indeed, my bad. As to your comment about “Pod spawned clones tend not to be able to distinguish between humans.”, I defer to your obviously greater and more intimate knowledge, not having even encountered the term previously. I’l grant that you may be right occasionally. Pity about the rest of the time.
Albo comes from Sydney. You need to aquaint yourself with some facts before shooting your mouth off.
An apparatchik follows the script – facts are irrelevant and usually at odds with the Party line.
You have fallen for and/or are promoting the right wing media tactics being used in US, UK and Oz to avoid progress and positive change, constant personal denigration of centrist leaders and elites, to encourage disgust, apathy and a no vote, or don’t vote at all….. currently Albanese, Starmer and Biden are copping -ve agitprop on social media by sock puppets accounts etc., inspired by legacy media cartels and their sponsors.
He seems to have been taken in by a confidence man – his strategist for the YES campaign for the Voice to Parliament.
Look up the articles in Crikey’s Investigations section to learn more about Mark Textor – the strategist Albanese works with on the Voice referendum campaign.
The first target of a pollster is his client. He needs to craft the right message for his paymaster.
The second priority are signals and messages from to back to the market.
Albanese’s working with Texor on this, is he? They’re doing a bad job.