Well it’s pretty safe to say that there’s not much left of Victorian Labor’s violence-against-women image and politics after the latest twists and turns in the Setka saga.
John Setka’s wife — high-powered labour lawyer Emma Walters — has revealed that she was the woman Setka had been convicted of harassing in an evening of calls and texts. The subsequent interview managed to undo just about everything Labor and violence-against-women activists have been trying to insist upon for years.
Walters insisted that Setka was not a violent man. She said he hadn’t thrown an iPad at her — he had thrown an iPad, and it had skimmed past her head — and that she had feared him, but that was a product of “being unwell” at the time. The push to expel Setka from the ALP was apparently a scapegoating of Setka in the wake of an election loss.
What was one to make of this amid everything else going on?
First of all it’s got nothing to do with factional politics, not at all. They’re not clenching their teeth and keeping it together, in order to keep the Industrial Left faction on the road. Anthony Albanese’s determination to have Setka expelled from the ALP is utterly unconnected from the ALP national Left trying to head off what remains of the Industrial Left-Centre Alliance, which tried to lock them out of power, no sirree.
But what it has put front and centre is the gap between the official position on violence against women (VAW), and real negotiations between two people in a relationship, whatever the mix of motives may be. For years, several things have been insisted upon. Firstly that VAW arises from gender inequality and a lack of respect. Secondly, that any action other than a woman departing the relationship arises from psychological domination and finally, above all, that the concept of “violence” must be extended from physical exchange and intimidation to a wider set of behaviours.
These have become “givens” among the policy and activism networks around VAW, and spread widely among a section of the knowledge classes. But they’ve never become general among a wider section of the community, who tend to see violence as having multiple causes, and who seem less than convinced by the notion that non-physical acts (other than explicit threats) constitute violence per se. Setka was convicted of harassment which is not, at least in legal terms, a violent act and Walters accepted that. With that, the single ideal of what violence is has been complexified somewhat.
That definition has been expanding for some years now in social policy and on the cultural left, becoming a catch-all term for bad or oppressive behaviour. There’s “emotional violence”, “verbal violence”, “financial violence” — controlling family money — and so on. The variants have proliferated as VAW became a major public issue. Victoria has been a powerhouse for this, its social policy guidelines going so far as to define “hurt feelings” as a form of violence, and running a major youth campaign against vicious texting and social media bullying as a form of violence.
The problem with such a proliferation of “violences” in the context of gender is that it gets away from the core inequality at the heart of physical violence, which is the different embodiment of men and women, and the particular wire-up of muscles, the endocrine system and other factors. This is surely at the heart of why we see male-on-female violence as more unjust than male-on-male violence.
Yet what was commonsensical until quite recently becomes harder to acknowledge within social policy, as a “social constructionist” idea of gender takes over social policy, and the beliefs of the knowledge class. The expansion of the idea of violence to cover a range of disembodied social exchanges then becomes a new Victorianism: men are uniquely aggressive, women uniquely passive recipients. Victimhood and lack of agency become the essence of womanhood.
But in disembodied social exchange, this simply isn’t true. The texts Setka sent are nasty and shameful, but they’re slurs and insults not threats — if there were threats, they haven’t been aired — and of a sort that women can as easily throw at men as vice versa. Despite this, the notion that all nastiness is maleness dies hard. The Victorian government’s poster/social media campaign at the same time as the “Respectful Relationships” campaign constructed boys as the unique perpetrators even though it’s clear that a lot of online bullying, up to inducing self-harm and suicidal behaviours, is done by girls to other girls.
So the whole thing is now an absolute tangle. The social policy complex around these matters — Big Violence — wants to simultaneously define violence as male, deny the biological substratum of “violence inequality”, and expand the notion of violence until the term ceases to have any distinctive and useful meaning.
The pole star leading that journey is the fantasy idea that “violence” could be abolished, which then licenses social agencies to reach into every aspect of intimate social relations. The Setka-Walters melodrama, or what we can see of it, puts that paradox front and centre. If Emma Walters doesn’t have power and agency, no-one does. The key inequality she faces can be seen in “that” photo, which could be a poster for another reboot of King Kong: The Musical.
The more wide-ranging the attempts to control social behaviour become — and we are now closing in on a decade of failure on dealing with VAW — the more they will fail. The focus needs to return to violence itself, and the distinctive, and irreducible, inequality at the heart of it.
I am amazed at the lack of understanding Rundle has about violence. How do you think it starts genius? Berating, ranting, trying to make someone fee small. He had an AVO against him which he completely ignored!
Why don’t people leave domestic violence situations?
1. They don’t want to.
Relationships are complex, people often make choices for themselves that we think aren’t in their best interests. We have no right to force our brand of paternalistic protection onto them against their wishes. If we want to help them, we have an obligation to help them on their terms. (ie marriage counselling, anger counselling, family support.)
Otherwise you’re suffering from false saviour syndrome.
2. They can’t leave.
Are they coerced by fear, economic vulnerability/dependence, threats, etc.
In which case begging the perpetrators of violence to please be nice doesn’t empower survivors. Because survivors are still left without power and without choice after the benevolent light of the TV campaigns and rhetoric fade.
It also feels like the cultural battle of “is abusing women societally okay” has already been won. Can you name a single bloke who would proudly admit to abusing his partner?
Everyone feels shame at it. Everyone knows it’s wrong. There’s no more minds to change now.
That might be how it starts, or a prelude to it. Doesn’t answer the question of what violence is, and how we should define it…
I would suggest were well past that Guy, that shouldn’t be a question when you consider the stats, we need to be in ”lets fix this train wreck before it does anymore damage mode”..
They need to speak to those on the front line, the people that are doing everything they can too save these women & children, considering the current shortage of low cost housing & the fact that the Federal Govt, is still not funding this sector enough, is just incredibly negligent & arrogant of it..
So yes, this maybe important in the media to discern exactly ”what type of violence” a woman is experiencing when she’s maybe tried quite a few times to escape & get some help, that’s the most dangerous of nitpicking Guy..
Therein lies the problem, most of the media don’t take this problem seriously, until it does this won’t go away..
Many more women will die at the hands pf their ex partner/spouse until some really meaningful action is actually taken..
Couldn’t agree with you more Sharman, I have studied & worked with counselors in the DV sector & the reality is that Guy’s understanding of the is area is sadly lacking.
Most relationships especially those of a highly political & public couple such as Setka & Walters are often complex & along with the external influences & cues that may have caused what you describe that occurred, but as humans we’re all fallible, keeping in mind context is everything..
But Setka’s attitude to the Women’s/DV activist Rosie Batty is sad but shows we have a long way to go, as this conversation with men is far from over..
There needs to be more of a focus on those men who are struggling with their anger & their inability to control it & work through it with other men, especially if their family of origin is problematic ie strong non-communicative, difficult male parent figure, with a female who may tend towards subordination.
I will be honest with you if there was proper male specific anger management process set up so that men are able to work through what their experiencing, not only would men be happier they would most likely learn more effective ways of communicating with their partners & family, this hopefully would lead onto better balanced relationships/families..
From what I’ve seen there’s little to no funding, for these really important counseling & support groups, this is coming from someone whose heard & seen some seriously violent & controlling behaviour which has led to women & children losing their lives (or having to leave their family & friends & stay away from anyone) Guy their only mistake was to pick the wrong bloke & not read the signs properly, even then there’s been some men that refuse to take No as the answer..
The Federal governments efforts over the years have nothing to do with the diffuseness of the concept of violence, as in my experience in 90 + % of DV cases all of what Guy described was a part of the puzzle that is the complexity of this type of behaviour towards women or the less pushy/overt side of the partnership, these things he described are to a lesser or greater degree included within a DV situation, most women who are subject to this violent behaviour are caught up in a situation that they can’t escape which is why their partner will control their access to finances, to family/close friends, (isolation) and external supports & so it goes on..
The reality is that many men that commit acts of DV usually have seen these things as either a way of life or an expectation that comes out of fear or pain associated with their own family of origins behaviours.
We need to remember that its only been a very short time since the police stopped returning women who tried to leave the family home with their kids, as their attitude was this is a domestic matter, this I would suggest is where were seeing the proliferation of male perpetrators & their unfortunate partners, they came from a time when the laws were far more archaic.
I worked for a few years in the legal system & worked with some very good judges, the most difficult was when they came into Sydney & we had to do victim compensation, having seen & heard what these women went through just to rescue their kids, I can’t describe it there were many times the judge would suddenly call out ”all rise” as he couldn’t cope, he’d been a circuit judge for many years..
When your sitting listening to what someones been through, there were many times that we needed a new transcriber & the Judge would call it early if he felt that it was too hard for the brave souls that he had to hear what they so stoically went through for so many years..
Behind every story of pain & fear, there’s trauma also for so many people there’s a loss of childhood innocence..
This is why it’s going to take a very long time to take this shame that Australia has carried for so many generations & put it where it belongs for the next few generations, back in the history books, along with the white Australia policy & the attempted genocide of the indigenous, 1st nations people..
Whether we like it or not it’s most likely going to get worse before it gets better, we need to strap ourselves in & educate, educate & more education..
Rosie Batty was just the tip of the ice berg her partner had real mental health problems, we have to be brave & ensure the next generation learns that DV isn’t acceptable because they’re having a tough day..
When judging Setka’s comments on Rosie Batty, have you taken into consideration that
1. he denies making them,
2. others in the meeting deny him making them, 3. the source of the allegations is cowering in anonymity,
4. those using the allegations to attack him have been in dispute with him for decades over industrial matters,
5. those using the allegations to attack him don’t really give a stuff about women anyway (since when has the Coalition been pro women… abortion rights, pay equity for female dominated industries, ratios in childcare, ratios in politics, etc)
Seems like they’ve figured out that if they can’t beat him on the IR front, they’ll attack him on some unsubstantiated sexism claims and draw a fallacious link between IR law crime and domestic violence.
I don’t know the truth of it, I am skeptical of the messenger and their intent though.
AVOs are granted 1. In 2-3 minutes flat, on average 2. By denying a person the effective assistance of legal counsel. 3. By asking the person to pay c $ 25,000 to defend it, bit if they win without a costs order . 4. For violence that extends beyond criminal violence to include yelling, calling a women fat , and not leaving the family home when asked. Thats why they have exploded. Thats why they arent working.
Oh Dear, not one of your best efforts, Guy!
Conflating violence and abuse and violence and male gender creates a ‘straw man’ argument set up. People who experience abuse (repetitive fearfulness producing events) can rationalise and minimise to make their life seem liveable, no matter how intelligent they are. Often the more intelligent can rationalise more inventively.
‘If someone shows you the first time who they are, believe them’.
Ken
I’m not conflating violence and abuse; others are. They include most of the official policy bodies.
As to the repetition theory, yes undoubtably useful and applicable sometimes. But where and when? And where does a free choice about non-violent abuse fit in?
As far as trauma goes, the hardest to rise above is the accumulative situation, starting before puberty, applying to both males and females, that do not have to be physically violent to leave a lasting effect on the person’s beliefs about the world.
If the person does not feel safe they will try to protect themselves with (age appropriate/ but not life long) coping mechanisms.
The fear and anxiety drives the response and the goal is to have control.
Sometimes that is by becoming passive; sometimes by becoming angry/violent and sometimes by developing amazing avoidance strategies.
Major traumatic life events can occur with all of us and those without early life trauma can recover within a year or so. However, those with the ‘kindling’ of developmental/early life traumatic events have a ‘piling on’ effect from every new trauma and, unless the underlying history of events is dealt with, no amount of band aid (anger management/white knight) interventions will ultimately work.
During the journey of repair and forgiveness (self) there have to be safe places a person can go to collect themselves.
I am not sure about any concept of free choice around non-violent abuse.
Essentially as adults with capacity we are held responsible for our decisions. Sometimes our decisions are made by one of the hurt/frightened/angry parts of ourselves that we have accumulated through our lives. If we have learned about these parts of us we can learn ways to comfort them before we do something that makes us feel shame. Being human we will still make mistakes. It is important to offer forgiveness to those parts but also to rise above our shame and make amends to those we have abused.
Ken
Those are all specific approaches to the issue. They may have value. But you present them as if they’re the revealed truth. They’re not. Any model of the relationship between violence, trauma and development is simply that – a model
So well put Ken..
That’s what happened too me, when I was young a bf many years ago (who I stupidly moved in with too early) hit me, (it was in a cab going somewhere) I never forgot it I saved & saved to get out, he was in the Navy, it took months but thankfully he was away a lot, so it was easier..
My grandma said if he hits you once it gives him permission to do it again, she said never give that permission in the first place..
The idea that because a woman has an education and a career and money she can’t have been abused, that such a women would walk away from a man like Setka if he actually lifted a finger against her and would not actually fear him or be cowed by him, is just so grossly wrong.
A paragraph like “Walters insisted that Setka was not a violent man. She said he hadn’t thrown an iPad at her — he had thrown an iPad, and it had skimmed past her head — and that she had feared him, but that was a product of “being unwell” at the time.” would see heads nod from a great many domestic violence victims, recognising the sort of excuses they themselves once made for an abuser. That you take it as a grand exoneration of Setka is utterly extraordinary. Are you some close mate of his? Is this something that ought to be disclosed when you write, the way you once got caught out failing to disclose your close relationship with Greens candidates you were extolling?
It’s impossible for me to say what has happened behind closed doors, but the statement from Emma Walters doesn’t actually give one much comfort that Setka is innocent.
As a piece on domestic violence, this reads like the work of one of those blackshirt mens’ rights activists chanting “not all men!” and defending their right to verbally berate and intimidate women.
I wasn’t ‘caught out’ extolling a Greens candidate I had been friends with; I declared it up front. That’s how you know about it. And the story in question was one that happened to damage her career.
In this story, I simply reported what Walters told the Herald Sun, and noted the problems it creates for Labor’s preferred model of violence-against-women.
I find myself at a loss with Walters’ equivocation of “unwell”, if accurately reported.
It’s interesting that grundle, of all people, should be copping the pissant pile-on.
The mere fact that he has had to try to elucidate, one-by-one, for people who are, apparently, either incapable of reading what is written or, more likely, understanding simple statements would seem to be a good example ‘nyaah nyaah I can’t hear you’.
Or “ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken”.
For 50yrs women’s refuges haven’t been able to reconcile personal responsibility with “any action other than a woman departing the relationship” because… what?
Hormones? Social paradigms? Stockholm syndrome?
It’s with considerable relief we learn Setka didn’t throw the iPad ‘at’ Walters. He merely threw it…
Back in 1977, according to Barbara Ramjan, Tony Abbott didn’t hit her, he merely punched the wall either side of her head…
That in itself is enough.. John Setka is not a small man, she’s been with him long enough to know what he’s capable of..
I would imagine much of her comments are carefully vetted, just so it doesn’t look so bad to the public, but also so she doesn’t look like a victim..